Discuss what kind of class guide is useful.

  • I made some guides in the forum. The most feedback is I shouldn't focus on the people has already geared.

    I totally understand it.

    But I think there are not too much new players in this game. Everyone has known the basic idea of the game. Like the how important that dmg dealt, dmg to x are.

    Who is the audience of guides? I think most of them are the players who want to try another class.

    So my idea is showing the specific feature of the class. Like shuri's 2s burst. Hs' smite or lightning. Wiz's -def and critdmg and dps for longer time.

    But there is no feature without good equipment. Like wiz, 400 critdmg is a challenge for even +20.

    So what guide do you think is a useful guide?

  • I think guides that target both geared and ungeared players are the best guides. For the most part, geared players don't need guides if they're already playing the class, and if they aren't already playing the class then they're probably not geared [yet].

    For the most part, guides are meant to heIp teach the basics of a class and provide examples of gear/stats/masteries/etc. Making a guide to purely show off the 2s burst of a class seems more like showing off than making a guide.


    The majority of players sit at the +20 range of gear, so making a guide for that tier of player makes more sense than making a guide for the few that are +30, and as I mentioned prior, if they're already +30 they won't care for a guide that shows them what they can already do. Now, if you make a guide for beginners to a class (which is the general purpose) and also include "this is what you can do when this class is maxed out", then there's really no issue with that since you've covered the "here's how you play the class, here are the recommended masteries/gear/etc, but also look at the future potential".


    TLDR; Guides are generally meant for people new to a class, so they should be tailored to that demographic of player. Treat it as if they don't have gear, and if they do, then great, but if they don't then they won't feel like they can't use the guide.

  • Thx for the reply, it may helps me to improve those guide. I think I have an idea now. I am going to separate the class guide. There a l lot of information is same for all classes, like ss or gears. I am going to put those things out from class guide, and make them to be several guides. And make class guide in to 3 part: feature, basic,advanced.

  • Thx for the reply, it may helps me to improve those guide. I think I have an idea now. I am going to separate the class guide. There a l lot of information is same for all classes, like ss or gears. I am going to put those things out from class guide, and make them to be several guides. And make class guide in to 3 part: feature, basic,advanced.

    There's not really any need to separate any information outside of your class guide / make multiple guides, just make it all comprehensive in one post as such is the traditional format of old and new guides i.e. Daybreak's GS guide / Mitchie's lancer guide / Asano's tachi guide (old forums). Even if the information is similar between classes, a short mention is all you need especially since you can't expect readers to flip through multiple guide tabs. There haven't really been particular complaints about the formatting of a guide before so no need to reinvent the wheel.

  • But I think there are not too much new players in this game.

    This is so wrong. Most of geared players, or players that have been sitting in guilds that are filled with endgame players lost sight of the new player in this game.

    There are ALOT of them!

    And they quit cause noone is running lowlvl dungeon / is giving them a hand.

    People may call me nub and stupid and a meme, but at least I didnt loose track of keeping the game alive instead of yelling "games dead", "merge when".


    <Sea of Thought>

    ▪️ Muffin lvl [S2] Lancer | Immortals Guild ▪️

    ▪️ Cookie lvl [S3] DPS-Bardo | Ethereal Guild ▪️

    ▪️ AK US PHOENIX ▪️


  • I agree on this. I'm a new player and i read a lot to get infos your post are helpful, enough for new players like me to study and learn.

  • I really didn't knew there are many new player. But I have another question. When I was new, I could find many guides for beginners. So in my view, basic guide is enough. And, we can know many information from database. There are just too many guide for new players, and not too many for more advanced players. A ak.to holy sword players said to me 700k dmg stat cannot solo trail. And I have met many similar speech like that.

  • Someone can just trust their own experience. Guides are not there to be followed 1:1. You need to exploid and try out stuff, or you will end up like people who tell you "sky is the limit" (aka Bards cant be DPS / Holyswords cant do trial solo with 700k)


    You also have to filter of who you get those informations. Cause everyone on the internet can just tell you made up stories.

    Thats why upvoting guides and posts is so important~

    ▪️ Muffin lvl [S2] Lancer | Immortals Guild ▪️

    ▪️ Cookie lvl [S3] DPS-Bardo | Ethereal Guild ▪️

    ▪️ AK US PHOENIX ▪️


  • The only guide you should follow is the How to DPS in PvE guide by sedation, that guide is timeless and everyone should read it.

    Daybreak - 95 - Gunslinger

    SoonTM - 90 - Shuriken

    ChubbyBird - 90 - Sorc

    Pachimari - 90 - Lancer

    Snow Vice

    Hydra Phoenix


  • The only guide you should follow is the How to DPS in PvE guide by sedation, that guide is timeless and everyone should read it.

    Even feel like the old players that have been playing this game should read this guide as well because I've seen too many un-optimized people wondering why they don't deal enough dmg to solo or even wonder why they lack dmg in comparison to someone with the same gears & class as them. Not only that, but for some reason some of the older players feel like since they've been playing longer they should share their build, and in turn of sharing their build, they pass down misleading and false information. So reading this guide would be beneficial to not only those who are new to this game, but as well to those who wish to lead others in a right direction. Just a thought.karu

  • I just feel like you guys keep making guides for the so called "whales" and okay I'm glad you can afford getting all your super gears by spending money or cashing but you need to offer alternatives too.

    Not everyone can spend and this is a F2P game in the end where you can access all the content for free, so just making guides focused on "get high end gears +30 and nuke everything" is not a guide a newbie needs.


    Also as Daybreak and Suuran said, we moved old guides here for a reason. They were the best back then and mechanics haven't changed (a few things like PEN etc should be added but the basics of it don't change).


    So reading this guide would be beneficial to not only those who are new to this game, but as well to those who wish to lead others in a right direction.

    kirbyheart

    L0vJ7MF.png

    Chimera | Duelist / Sorcerer / Lancer

    Discord | Nana#8417

  • The only reason why I made a GS guide was because none existed, literally any class with a good guide written already i.e Shuriken (raynee), Guardian (Phil), etc. don't need a new clown to rewrite them, just stick to the classics written by the best players.

    Daybreak - 95 - Gunslinger

    SoonTM - 90 - Shuriken

    ChubbyBird - 90 - Sorc

    Pachimari - 90 - Lancer

    Snow Vice

    Hydra Phoenix


  • Real question, why post a guide when people wont actually read all of it.


    Every guide I've ever posted on this forum has had at least 50% of the comments on it asking questions answered in the guide. The single greatest impact you can have on this game's community is finding people on your server that want to learn and helping them out one on one and tailoring your responses towards them specifically.

    ZuBGqQY.jpg

    RayneeDay/Amenohi

    Siren-Phoenix

    Euphoria

  • Real question, why post a guide when people wont actually read all of it.


    Every guide I've ever posted on this forum has had at least 50% of the comments on it asking questions answered in the guide. The single greatest impact you can have on this game's community is finding people on your server that want to learn and helping them out one on one and tailoring your responses towards them specifically.

    And down goes my motivation. D:


    Honestly though, I agree with this, and this is exactly why I never felt the need to create a guide myself during the years I was still playing (the other part being, even if I felt it was largely inconsistent, outdated, or a bit messy, there was at least a decent enough guide for the class). I've helped many people in game one on one like this, although since I retired long ago, I do plan on posting a guide regardless of how small of a percent of people read it. I've been sitting it for probably nearly half a year now and still sometimes get asked why I never made one, or I still get asked questions long after stopping play that had I made one, I'd be able to simply reference it to answer, so if I can give back to one more person at the cost of that time then it's worth it to me. ^^;



    Chimera server - Catalyst guild - Retired

    Sylver_Aura - Level 95 Wizard/Bard (since 2014) | Princess_Garnet - Level 86 Tachi (since 2015)

  • Real question, why post a guide when people wont actually read all of it.


    Every guide I've ever posted on this forum has had at least 50% of the comments on it asking questions answered in the guide. The single greatest impact you can have on this game's community is finding people on your server that want to learn and helping them out one on one and tailoring your responses towards them specifically.

    Many reasons, like lazy to say how important the dmg to x. Like teach them what is marginal benefit.

    I DIDN'T want to do those. What I wanted to do is showing +30 is not the terminate station, you could go further. Then proving +30 is not everything, you can use your economic knowledge, you math skills, your intelligence to make dmg higher.

    Like when people say def shred 50% is the cap and vicki is useless, I was considering how can I do 50% in shorter time, so I have vicki. And now golden break def is sooo expensive. And I am trying not to break def, just like the video. There are many information behind this video, I had this idea and discussed this to TWAK players last year, can we give up the -def? No one agree with me. But, I made it, then they rethink it. Here, people only can see I have all+30, and they think if they have +30 they can do it as well. You know what? just today, A hk player with all+30 hs asked me why he has such a little dmg.


    You know the feedback, I know it's my fault. And Cookie says there are may new players, I am really glad to hear that. And I do want to make some useful things for them. No one likes repeat and repeat, if someone want to discuss with me, I really wish they know the basic knowledge. So I am going re remake my guides. Combine with all comments. I think a good guide should have several factors: 1. Let people interested in this class. This is what I focused too much. 2. More details of skills combo. 3. Shorter. To be better in this game, not too much depends on how you understanding this class, It depends on how you understand his game. So, I am working on a pve guide. I really wish this one will be useful.

  • Hmm... many new players, huh?
    Well, that's good thing to hear. But ya, people are lazy, most of them won't bother reading a long paragraph or even 3 lines of tutorial.


    Back to the original topic, I think we should just write general guides to help them get to the majority base ASAP with a decent knowledge of the game. DPS guide is a great example of that because it's general, can be used for all classes and all levels. And to be fair, most classes all come to a very conclusion is that: "Damage > all". All that left is the actual play style that people should develop themselves. (Shouting to the guy playing with no subclass, you're my idol).


    And to achieve that, economy guide would be nice. Who doesn't love money? Who doesn't love making gold? Rather than just simply tell people how they should do stuff, maybe we should tell them how to make money and hint them how to spend it.

    What's better than a cute loli? More cute lolis.

    Gotta love this game.

  • Why are you mentioning defense shred in the first place, from the point that I quit defense shred had become inherently useless due to the innate defense buffs of a boss, whats the use in defense shredding if its base defense in 3 times higher than cap. This is the core reason why most JPN AK players use 95 gold weapons instead of 90 crafted because destroyer cores actually become worthless. However, I could be entirely wrong, I haven't played in over a year and a half now and I don't intend to again. You clearly misunderstood my point though CatSaysMeow. It has nothing to do with how good your guide is or how much knowledge you have. This is a fundamental truth of the internet and life in general: Regardless of how knowledgeable you are, and how good your points are, unless you can convey them simply and succinctly to your targeted audience and that your targeted audience actually reads and understands it, it is a waste of time. Getting ridiculously technical with the math behind every minor optimization only serves to clutter your guide and dilute the important information that most people are there for which to put simply is: Basic Gear Choices, Envoy, Stat distribution (HAHA NICE MEME 99 DMG 99 HP 2k18 lul), Simplified Rotation. Once someone cares enough about optimization to go looking for answers they will eventually just message someone they know is knowledgeable on it, but most people don't care about optimzation, once they can reliably clear they are happy.

    ZuBGqQY.jpg

    RayneeDay/Amenohi

    Siren-Phoenix

    Euphoria

  • Why are you mentioning defense shred in the first place, from the point that I quit defense shred had become inherently useless due to the innate defense buffs of a boss, whats the use in defense shredding if its base defense in 3 times higher than cap. This is the core reason why most JPN AK players use 95 gold weapons instead of 90 crafted because destroyer cores actually become worthless. However, I could be entirely wrong, I haven't played in over a year and a half now and I don't intend to again. You clearly misunderstood my point though CatSaysMeow. It has nothing to do with how good your guide is or how much knowledge you have. This is a fundamental truth of the internet and life in general: Regardless of how knowledgeable you are, and how good your points are, unless you can convey them simply and succinctly to your targeted audience and that your targeted audience actually reads and understands it, it is a waste of time. Getting ridiculously technical with the math behind every minor optimization only serves to clutter your guide and dilute the important information that most people are there for which to put simply is: Basic Gear Choices, Envoy, Stat distribution (HAHA NICE MEME 99 DMG 99 HP 2k18 lul), Simplified Rotation. Once someone cares enough about optimization to go looking for answers they will eventually just message someone they know is knowledgeable on it, but most people don't care about optimzation, once they can reliably clear they are happy.

    I thing I agree with you. I will make and change something first. Then make it better and better.

  • Well Aeria is entering what you could say is the high defense period for bosses, but no where near Tomb of the Ancients and Sarpa's Forbidden Laboratory values. So if anything this would be when -def has a bigger impact if we talking a non +30 situation otherwise boss is nuked so fast doesn't really matter. Bosses def continues to increase till end of 95 dungeons for the most part then x-legend lowered def values a whole bunch of whatever reason and decided to switch to bosses with high evasion, making you require accuracy. But really doubt it is useful to go out of your way stacking -def and depending on your class and such might not matter at all.

  • Well Aeria is entering what you could say is the high defense period for bosses, but no where near Tomb of the Ancients and Sarpa's Forbidden Laboratory values. So if anything this would be when -def has a bigger impact if we talking a non +30 situation otherwise boss is nuked so fast doesn't really matter. Bosses def continues to increase till end of 95 dungeons for the most part then x-legend lowered def values a whole bunch of whatever reason and decided to switch to bosses with high evasion, making you require accuracy. But really doubt it is useful to go out of your way stacking -def and depending on your class and such might not matter at all.

    =O Bosses with high Eva soon huh... :/

  • Having a high eva boss or two might be fun give a new challenge to those who are bored of the current bosses

    My hs has 59 acc now. If necessary, 15 in Weapon mastery, Emblem 8%, Weapon costume 8% , pet,5%

    Total= 95%, The cap of acc is 90%

    Yes, it let me scarify some other boost, but not quite big.

    And, this is talking about hs, how if bow, katar, duelist, grenadier? No influence at all.

    I assume that bosses have 95 eva. and this is the result, how if they don't have as much as this?


    Dungeon is this game..

    Hp*10, we can say the party and hell mode is for party.

    Hp*100, the boss can be called boss in other games.


    When I forted my gears from +20 to 30, I can only tell my friends who play other game that my dps is increased 100%.

    I really feel shame to say I can spend 2 SECONDS less on boss.

  • When I forted my gears from +20 to 30, I can only tell my friends who play other game that my dps is increased 100%.

    I really feel shame to say I can spend 2 SECONDS less on boss.

    Lol sir that's your fault, no one told you that you had to +30 your gear. Especially on a class like hs where effort needed is at the bare minimum to practically non-existent.

  • Lol sir that's your fault, no one told you that you had to +30 your gear. Especially on a class like hs where effort needed is at the bare minimum to practically non-existent.

    If you love someone, your pain is not for gain. But, you will be more happy if you receive a gain.