Posts by Zessen

    honestly you do seem like a newbie in mmos simply because you dont test out things first like crit affecting HoTs and what spd does for it. you just say "oh i heard it does this so it must be true".

    also, i have played wiz with all sorts of subs, ive been a wiz main since OBT. ive tried all sorts of things from wiz/gren to wiz/necro. heck i was even wiz/guard for fun a little while, roaring for my party mates so they all get the loot. i was a wiz/sorc way back when people didnt have above 100k+ hp and people still needed gs as sub to cap spd, this was the point in time where smaller HoTs actually mattered. but then again, this was the time in AK where it was "get1shot by the boss or live with a sliver of HP and heal up TO FULL asap before the next boss attack hits". this part mostly hasnt changed for average geared people like me. in case youre gonna say im not average geared im still wearing full level 80 Lordswrath +20, theres already lvl90, s1, and s5 gears available and +30 is also there. for better geared people with 500k or more hp, those 3 rejus wont cut it. HoTs of those isnt enough for that. i tried those things you keep saying i havent tried. ive experimented with wizard way too much on things i have access to, and let me tell you again. your idea of a wiz/sorc is not worth it. it doesnt have potential and is mostly a for-fun-and-not-gonna-take-endgame-seriously build.

    oh guess what, i do play wiz/bard sometimes as a support but with full dps gears. healing in vaultpt stage 3 is sometimes required of me. but you know what, my heal still full heals a 500k hp person with healing harmony if it crits. thats something all three rejus cant do.

    also that 30sec cd im talking about is with cap spd. i guess you dont know wizard ulties have 60sec base cd. im not 100% but i think all envoy combos are like that unless you use masteries(which youre gonna exchange with either deepblue or bestdefense, another tradeoff go figure).

    still not gonna stop you from making it when you already said it yourself that "Wizard isnt fit for healing", but you know, someone else might think "oh this might be a great idea" when its not. its a forum after all and maybe a newbie comes in and sees this and tries it out, then gets disappointed when they see a bard sub healing much more than they did.

    edit: coz u mentioned my stats without armors

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    mount is iceskilldmg. yeah maybe its horrible(to me its okay) there are other people with higher base stats than me simply because they are s5, got more eidos, more card forts, and more achievements.

    another:

    Edit :

    -To add your comment on Nocturnal doing way better, so? Is there something, a barrier, against using them both? Okay, Nocturnal is really good, so use them both. You dont have to stop using your regenerative abilities just because nocturnal is better.

    simply because nocturnal scales with dmg. it heals you up the stronger you are. yeah it doesnt stop you from using both but nocturnal heals you more than reju ever will. relying on reju first and noc later is actually a bad choice simply because it wont heal you up that fast when you need it most. only time you actually use reju to heal is when theres no mobs to hit or you're kiting something that should not be hit (fake panthers for one thing).

    oh also sorc reju void skill isnt reliable, as a wiz u wont really be spamming sorc skills to fill up your void bar, only normal reju mantra so thats gonna be slow, then its gated by rng, u might not get mantra for a while if rng decides to screw with you.

    but thats the thing, you wanna build dps and heal at the same time while building like a support bard? not gonna happen on a wiz/sorc, it just isnt cut out for it. sure u can try it out all you want but im still telling you(and others that might be influenced, hopefully none) that its not worth it, might as well play bard or go bardsub. also healing mantra is just too far out of the usual envoys to even get, youre just gonna end up wasting envoy pts for a heal on a 30sec cd. it doesnt look promising at all. what are you gonna do when you need to clutch heal 2 times in a row? look at mantra and pray that the cd suddenly resets? im not even sure it heals as much as you make it sound like. keep in mind dungeon bosses arent gonna wait for your HoTs to heal you up to full after a 100k or more attack, theyre gonna keep hitting you. goodluck trying to heal that up with just rejuprayer/mantras 2k-ish HoTs(4k with 200heal%) when even a bards Ballad might have a hard time.

    also you dont really get it, you dont support better just by having 200% heal on a wiz/sorc, you actually support your party less because as a Wiz, your focus should be taking down whatever mob/boss your party is fighting while providing defshred, CC-ing mobs, and cleansing along the way. taking the mobs/boss down faster means it has less time to actually hit the tank or whoever has aggro, that means less damage done to them which can also mean less chance for a wipe. killing something slower in exchange for just double the HoT thats already low in the first place is just plain stupid. thats just how this game is, its a DPS meta all the way even in the current hardest content Vaultpt where the only difference is you need slightly tankier members for certain mechanics. heck even full dps party can clear it if they know what to do. and in vaultpt your HoTs wont save whoever is in the cage. thats where bardsub or main comes in.

    also when it comes to supporting yourself with heals, nocturnal does the job ALOT better than rejuprayer/mantra. it also scales with your dmg, the more you do, the higher noc cores heal you. and about the heal only in mastery and not losing much dmg? well what are you gonna give up? mspd?(more mspd equals faster clears for the average party) cdmg?(wiz got stupid high cdmg cap) crit?(slvl needs this just coz of the new critcap and overcapping it gives cap cdmg) spd?(u might need some pts on it come slvl specially for low eidowish people) only eledmg is left, sure maybe u can throw some of it into heal% but thats not really worth it. the increase its gonna give your HoTs is so small. gears are the same thing because exchanging say a DPS trophy(guzigla+delfonia is the usual budget trophies for a 95) for a ruth(15%heal) or keres(20heal) trophy isnt worth it. same as switching out your dps top to wear divineset(18heal). you lose too much. SS is different tho as you can get 4%heal and 4%dmg on the same one, but its still a tradeoff coz you couldve gotten crit%/cdmg/eledmg instead of heal%. these tradeoffs are what you dont get, none of them are worth sacrificing just to get heal% on a Wiz.

    totally not worth it. theres just no way a heal focus wiz/sorc will actually be as needed as a healer in endgame pve. you already deal less dmg than a wiz/bard by going sorc sub and you cant even heal as good as them. the only thing you got going for you is 2 cleanses but reju prayer already does the job fine by itself.

    this really sums it up with how you want to play the class:

    don't turn a perfectly good DPS class into a really, really, really bad support that will accomplish close to nothing.

    3. no its not the same. since you said you are a bard main, you shouldve tried and see if ballad actually crits(it doesnt)


    4. healing mantra is more out of the way, how can you sacrifice something you arent even getting in the first place? just getting to the heal tile needs 4 envoy tiles, all of them defensive tiles like hp and def which wizards dont really need, getting to healing mantra requires another def tile. theres just no envoy you can do to get those and still get the mandatory gray tiles on the other side of the envoy.

    yes healing with a bard is better, healing without it is another thing entirely. reju prayer and reju mantra just doesnt cut it for endgame healing needs. what you dont get is that heal over times dont get increased by any damage stat. the only thing that actually increases it is heal%. spd increases it indirectly by making it tick abit faster (not twice as fast mind you, just 0.2 secs faster). healing as a bard sub meanwhile isnt just focused on ballad, you get access to bards other heal skills which actually gets increased by your harps dmg stat and your crit/cdmg.


    HoTs on wiz and sorc are abit low, even more so when compared to bard because we dont really build heal% like support bards. full heal% bards got like 200+ heal% along with ballad being able to be stacked 3x. as a dps we dont really get that high heal% unless we sacrifice dps stats for it(which is not advisable at all) nor can we stack rejuprayer x3 or reju mantrax3 (they do stack with each other). its just not enough in relevant dungeons.



    wizards can still support through other means, mainly cleansing, CC(stun and immobilize), and providing the best def shred in game(ice etch). supporting isnt just centered on healing.


    3. no it reduces it to 0.8 not 0.5 wrong info, also crit doesnt affect heal over time wrong info again.


    4. it doesnt work because unlike bards main heals, crit/cdmg does not affect HoTs of sorc and wiz. only heal% does and its not optimal to build heal% on a wiz or a sorc mainly because u are trading some sort of dps stat for it, whether it be a dps trophy(something like delfonia or guzigla) for heal% trophy(like keres) or spec pts(ur gonna move pts that are supposed to be in a dps stat) or even ss(trading dmg% or dmgto ele or something else like crit%or cdmg just to get heal%) its just not worth the exchange.


    sacrificing pts for it isnt actually needed. healing harmony already heals so much with base 100% heal and more than 300% cdmg, not worth moving pts on spec and envoy to get more heal. also what kind of wizard envoy has heal%, its so far out of the optimal wiz/bard or even wiz/sorc envoy.
    Common wiz/bard with 1 ult and meteor cd:
    common.jpg
    see where the heal is? i dont know what u plan on removing just to get to a small 3% heal tile. its just not worth it.

    reju is still mainly used for cleansing and the additional buffs it gives, not for the heal itself. its used that way. the heals are just a nice add on and isnt enough to be the main source of healing for someone whos on the receiving end of boss attacks. try healing yourself up on an endgame dungeon with just reju and without using other forms of healing, you will see it wont be enough when a boss can hit you for 100k or more and when their uncleansable dots do 10k+.

    a pure dps wiz/bard will still heal better than a pure heal wiz/sorc who just relies on rejuprayer/mantra. your idea of a HoT healer simply does not work in the meta AK is in and also simply because almost everything hits like a truck. there is just no way to heal your tank in somewhere relevant like in vaultpt where he is the one taking the cage and you are tasked with healing with just those small HoTs.

    1. yes theyre used for those reasons mostly

    2. still not enough to rely on in actual fights, plus playing out of meta builds in a game like AK will just slow you and your pt down. not saying you cant do it, just saying you shouldnt if you wanna optimize stuff and not be a deadweight most of the time.

    3. wiz reju is 3.6cd at spdcap and 60path but its still mostly used for cleanse and buffs. the dmg reduction works on allies. also spd cap doesnt double healing, it just reduces the tick time from 1sec(0 spd) to 0.8sec(50spd) basically it adds 3 ticks to a 12sec duration reju, thats far from double, also its a waste getting heal% to 150 with all the stats you're gonna give up getting it.

    4. still not worth doing a heal focused wiz with those reasons. going sorc/wiz or wiz/sorc and healing with those dots is not enough to actually make it viable. just an example my reju prayer heals 41,505hp IN 12 SECS (2767hp/tick,15ticks over 12secs) , its just not enough to heal me up(i got 270k hp with decent 80+20gears-not even endgame +30). bard sub wouldve healed me alot better(my healing harmony can heal me up to max even with just 103% healing and it doesnt even take 12secs) nocturnal core wouldve also healed me alot faster than that 41k hp in 12secs. also healing ultimates does basically nothing and is too far out of the way for the usual wiz envoy.

    not really recommended to do, wiz and sorc HoTs are so small and not enough to rely on in actual combat. noc core just heals you up way better than those small heals. bard sub meanwhile is okay for "pinch healing" in case youre really low and need to top up asap.


    it couldve worked way back when AK started due to people not having high amounts of hp due to no stars on armors and no forts on acce, but then again noc core wasnt nerfed that time and is way better. nowadays with all the easy access to LP for forts and DP to get LW you could gear up in a decent amount of time and get 150k or more hp and noc will heal you up faster than rejuprayer/mantra can. you mostly use it for the buffs/cleanse it provides, the extra heals is just a plus.

    this would be like having gearscore brackets then? it wont work that well coz people can manipulate gearscore by not leveling secret stones, not forting all their gears, wearing lower lvl equips just to enter a lower bracket while still using a +30 weap.


    only way pvp can be fixed imo is by equalizing gears like how other games do it.

    i thought about that too, but considering i can only do vault once a day and can still finish it with 50%-ish crit in a decent amount of time i just decided to put it in ice/fire for other dungeons. truth be told i had spec pts on crit not too long ago but now that i got arcane i have enough crit everywhere except vault. spd is okay to put extra pts into but i dont really feel a difference between zealchance on 0 and 30 pts in it with my current spd (11% to 13.5%, not sure how much zeal i have in vault). im overcapped on spd anyway even in vault coz i use shuri buff there + tonics. i will remove it in the future and put it in crit when awakening comes like sylv said.


    i was also thinking on putting it on HP to just go over 200k, not entirely a good idea since it wont increase my dps but having higher hp would give me more room for errors. :AK19:

    yea i dont have food on and using mspd emblem. i do reach 112 with food and ballad. i use ice skill emblem instead of dmg tho, not entirely sure if iceskill or dmg for emblem is better.


    yea the blinding is imperial, still no luck with crafting cores and getting a toxin set feels like a waste at this point so im sticking with it :AK2:

    i do have spare arcane set(with blessed cores) that i use for vault when i need more spd.

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    red ones are priority for current end game pve, green ones are optional since you can just run zaah/naz holy chest for fire/ice respectively (still nice to have if you got spare pts for it). yellow one is only if you cant cap cdmg otherwise ignore it. lightblue is where you spend your remaining pts depending on what stat you are lacking like if u arent cap spd then put pts in spd, same goes for crit/def. ele resistance is nice to have too if you are undergeared and just need that little extra resistance to not get one shot (this one can be ignored tbh, i just like having it). holy/storm are ignored since theres so few bosses around with that element but if u dont need to put any pts in lightblue/yellow might as well put it on those.

    i get this freeze thing too on my AMD card, this doesnt happen on my laptop tho with intel gfx. sadly i cant play on it since its a potato laptop with really bad specs (its only good enough for work/study related stuff).

    it is not quite easy to touch 400%... unless scarify some other things. And I want to remind that, critdmg from Envoy, is only buffed primary skills, make sure that ur sub skill also have 400% cdmg.

    It doest have to be in solo situation. In group, less than 3s is common.

    And I am not going to say wiz should go storm. I am just saying the razor wind occupy a lot. And yes, ice do helps a lot, that is also the reason that why I didnt call wiz a fake shuri. I memorize that after 4th second, ice do more than storm. I calculated 1 year ago, not quite sure now.

    yeah i actually overcap my cdmg abit just to get shuri sub to 400%, this isnt 100% necessary tho (i just like having it at cap).

    5iEkY7Q.jpg

    i got 172 base cdmg on my wiz with all items unequipped (left path, 20pts in cdmg, and other sources of cdmg like middle envoy and housing)


    Z7mEENR.jpg
    with wiz buff(i rarely use shuri buff unless i really need the boost in crit/spd) im at 269 base + 135 bosscdmg, thats 404 cdmg total, im not using any cdmg on wep cards and im on full sniper+blinding. if i switch to arcane/pw or 90 ones ill lose 10cdmg, but keep in mind im still on sniper so switching to full holy spirit set will give me extra 15%boss cdmg, and switching to 90weps will give me another 10% and another 6% if i ever get shuri to +30 totaling 425cdmg so im still capped by that time and i can stop using wiz buff until the changes to it comes around (10%more cdmg cap yay!).


    still not easy to get 400 tho as you need 6/2 stones and those dont come cheap specially for newer players.


    in a group yes 3secs is common, but the same thing still applies where you can use either element and kill stuff at the same speed +/- 1 second. most people wouldnt really notice the difference there.


    and you did say here :

    if talking about burst. 30+45 storm dmg is even better than 30+45 ice.

    thats actually you saying wiz should go storm dmg since its better than ice for bursting. i still dont think this is true coz most of the dmg a wiz does is from iceskills+autos, not razor wind itself. razor wind is just icing on the cake.

    didnt i just say this:

    if ever your razor wind deals more than 50% of the boss dmg in 1 cast then the boss is so squishy that it wouldnt matter and you can just burst it with ice skills with little effort.

    stuff that you can kill in 3secs or less is irrelevant. at that point you can just use either ice or storm and burst something with whatever ice/storm rotation and be okay with half a second to 1 second more time spent on the boss, most people wont care about that 1sec more. calculations can also be skewed at this point by zeals (one test proccing all the zeals on ice skills but none on storm and vice versa) but nevermind this one for now as again, something you can kill in 3secs or less is irrelevant.


    and also :

    my wiz only has +21 and i have actually used a +30 wiz of a friend(aze hes a guildmate of ours) so i know how much dmg +30weps on wiz deals.

    i felt like you only read the "my wiz has +21" part and your reply to it implies "im +30 my tests are more fair than yours coz you arent geared enough". repeating myself again: i already used a +30 wiz before (he has both +30 staff/shuri and full +30 acces and +21-25 armors) and full +30 compared to +30weap/acce is only some dmg% and cdmg% (cdmg part doesnt matter since shuri sub just gets wiz to cap easier) more, so only the eido/mount/emblem skill dmg are taken into account. the tests i did just to compare elements are as fair and relevant as yours.

    Don't say I have +30. Dungeons are easy enough for +20. After 70 sniper came, the game is changed. No tanker, No doctor, No supporter, Only dps.

    I just lazy to build one more +20 to prove it.

    oh yes +20 is enough for dungeons, but running something like OW SFL/ToA Hell mode by yourself as a +20 wiz/shuri and hoping to burst any of the bosses in 2 or 3 secs is like a dream, ice becomes ALOT better compared to storm in that scenario.

    i kinda feel like this 50%+ dmg from razor wind "alone" is more a main shuri thing because of envoys/wep spec. my wiz only has +21 and i have actually used a +30 wiz of a friend(aze hes a guildmate of ours) so i know how much dmg +30weps on wiz deals.


    all the tests ive done so far (storm vs ice mount using 24dmg eido coz i dont have 45storm eido yet) always had the same result, ice storm+icy curse beats razor wind by a good amount considering shuri sub razor wind has a 9second cd for the 2nd cast and a 27sec cd for the subsequent casts. rarely did razor wind contribute 50% of my dmg.


    if ever your razor wind deals more than 50% of the boss dmg in 1 cast then the boss is so squishy that it wouldnt matter and you can just burst it with ice skills with little effort (razor wind has a 5sec duration iirc, you can cast 3 ice storms and 2 icy curse in that time. do note that ice storm DoT actually stacks and they get buffed by icy curse once you are 60+ in left path). if you would need a 2nd cast of razor wind, by that time ice storm plus all the autos you did in that time frame has already outdamaged razor wind by a good amount, by the 3rd cast(if you ever get to this point) ice has far surpassed storm by then.


    no idea about other classes tho as i have given up trying to level them above 75 but im guessing theyre the same more or less.

    its ok sylvie, its only a minor mistake and its still a viable bot set for shuri subs. still an awesome guide!

    I use Magic Sundering bot set as a wiz like shown in the "post your stats" thread and i can hit the 400% Krit-dmg against bosses the only problem i have is i can't use a lvl 95 staff or sub bard

    yeah thats kinda the thing i dont like about it, i wanna be able to use bard sub from time to time and/or use the 95staff without worrying too much about cdmg. still a good bot set for shuri sub.

    Great Guide, everything well explained specially the gearing and stats part! there is honestly alot of people around doing 99dmg 99hp without even capping spd or getting a good amount of crit/def and end up doing alot less dmg/dying more than they shouldve.


    quick question tho, i thought sundering bottom gave elite cdmg instead of boss cdmg?

    jumpcasting and having a 25aspd eido is mandatory, it just adds so much dps. being lazy isnt a good reason either to not jumpcast/not get 25as. as for the shitty connection part, there are some ways around it like using a skill a bit earlier/later during the jump. ofc this doesnt always work but its better to at least try and jumpcast than not jumpcast at all. and when you're lagging so much that you cant use skills at all its honestly better to stop playing until your connection gets better/more stable.


    for subclass, shuri and bard are the only viable ones right now with HS as a far 3rd. shuri only works if you can fort your sub to at least +20, otherwise bard is better.

    HS used to be good because of def shred but with some bosses having too high def(im not entirely sure which ones have alot of def that u cant shred it) it becomes less viable.


    otherwise good guide~:AK20: